Don't forget Jonathan Woodgate
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And ikle Mikey Owen.
Struggle on wet Tuesdays in Stoke. As well sunny Saturdays. Probably.
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I'm much more of a radio man, but on this rare occasion watched a UCL match. This meant I got to see this Vinicius ply his trade for the first time I can recall. And from seeing his reaction to his first word of caution from the ref and his behaviour onwards, I can confirm my impression of him is he's a humongous cunt.
Anyway it was worth getting up early for an edgy nail bitting match, despite the time difference over there in Cyprus. I mean it was a bit tricky with the rook queen endgame but it's great that Vaishali became the first Indian woman to win the candidates tournament.
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We're not though, are we? Not really.
Even we did (hilariously, granted) get to the groups via winning the Eurovision Premier Thursday Night League I'd argue that the business end of the UCL is pretty far removed from the ever expanding early group stages.
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Thinking about those players, it's notable how many more truly iconic players (ie people who transcend football and everyone's nan has heard of) have played for ManU than Liverpool. Which supports my view that united are the bigger club.
United, i think you can make a case for Best, Charlton, Ronaldo, Beckham, Cantona, Rooney at a push.
Liverpool - Keggy Keegle, Dalglish, maybe Salah? -
Bigger check book, glitter, and fanbase, I'll give you. Not necessarily bigger/better football team. Although perception might be distorted based on historical period. Other clubs might also be bigger, if manure didn't get more than their share of decisions, after having bought their best players.
Buying brands is not where I would aspire for my club to be, personally.
(just noticed that the 'n' is next to 'b' on a keyboard. That's hazardous when typing 'bigger'. Checking for typos bore fruit here......)
Rush, Souness, Hansen, Barnes, Hughes, Ickle Mickle, Toshack, Clemence, Yates, St. John, Hunt, Gerrard,
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If the test is people knowing them who aren't football supporters (take my wife), I think Simon's list she'd know, yours not sure she would know any (Gerrard probably)
But that's your brand point rather than football quality point right there.
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JR has gone a bit 70's Comedian
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It was, I explicitly said people who transcend football. I guess you'd have to give tricky Emlyn Hughes, on account of Question of Sport, and I'll grudgingly allow Barnes.
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There's a time consideration as well. Bear in mind footballers were less famous (quite rightly) and people now, don't know things from then. But if I'm thinking about my nan, she definitely knew people like Toshack, Yates, St. John, Hunt (world cup winner!), then Hughes (and Hansen) was on prime time telly, and the more modern players have a wider profile (Barnes - top of the pops, Souness a moustache permed icon of comedy routines, Clemence - my grandparents would argue about how he could get picked for england when he lets the ball go through his legs, ickle mickle sunk the argies and won a trade mag award, etc).
The notion that Liverpool haven't had iconic figures that crossed over isn't really something that I recognise. I suppose it depends a bit on your environment. There was a time when there wasn't the promotion of individual footballers, but working class communities went and packed out games from the turn of the century (not the last one) and talked about players (you've heard about Albert Iremonger - that's what a real legend is, the generational stories told about them...not that they partnered with Pepsi to get twatter followers).
I'm not expecting your wife would know them. What about your nan's nan?
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Hansen, St. John - Telly famous, watched by many orders of magnitudes more people than watch telly nowadays. The influencers of their generation...that spilled over from football to impressionists, comedians, and into the wider conscience.
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Yes, St John. Not convinced Hansen's fame really extends outside football fans.
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You'll never win anything with kids.
Including this debate.
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Ian Rush featured in one of the most famous and still quoted TV commercials maybe in the history of British TV, without actually being in it. I can't see how he doesn't make your list of players known to non football fans.
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You've got to give him Barnes
and do it at the right time. -
Coventry's promotion is confirmed with a 1-1 draw at Blackburn. Hat tip to them, fun team to watch.
