In this instance, I suspect that if the goal had stood both teams would have been happy to play out a draw. The fury at the disallowed goal (a Milenkovic header so strong that not only did it go through Martinez, it somehow injured him in the process) got us that win.
12 Dec 2024
126
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I don't know, but I don't see why it would be. Betting on VAR outcome is no different to betting on any other outcome is it?
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I don't think VAR should be getting involved in margins on offside at all, but then I don't think we should have VAR so that's not a huge statement. I do think linos should be flagging Wood offside on the first pass though. He scores the goal, is centrally positioned, and has an advantage over the defenders from being yards nearer the eventual cross.
I'm not convinced they should have had a penalty but if it had been the other way and we lost that game Marinakis's toys would have been straight out of his pram.
That said. Another tight game in which we never gave up and showed genuine quality when it mattered. Something is definitely happening here. The signing of Anderson, his quality and the way we had Newcastle over a barrel is not like anything Forest have done for years and is the type of structural move that we are benefiting from now with our recruitment set up.
I don't like the ownership, the ownership structure, or in many ways the Premier League, but we are properly sat at this table now.
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I know not much happened in the first half but the furore over the penalty thing is really bugging me. Surely Rogers grabs Anderson’s shirt first and, in an attempt to stop him, Anderson grabs his wrist several yards outside the box. Rogers then gets into the box and falls over somewhat theatrically. So blame on both sides, incident started by Rogers and outside the box.
It’s nowhere near as stonewall as some of the ones we didn’t get last year. Yes, Ashley Young, I’m talking to you
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That was great fun. Again. Brilliant atmosphere, especially the last 15 mins. They don’t half mess with the sound on MotD though. When they showed the players shaking hands pre match, the soundtrack was Mull of Kintyre when in reality it was the premier league ‘anthem’ being drowned by boos and a chorus of ‘premier league, corrupt as fuck’.
CHO and Anderson joint men of the match for me, but all were excellent. Being slightly picky, could Sels have done better for their goal?
I like Villa. Proper club. And for the first time for about 40 years there is an English team I want to win the European Cup. But they looked all in towards the end of the game and I wonder if their midweek trip to Germany gave us an advantage.
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Clear dive. Booking.
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I agree. If I were to sum up up the impact of VAR it would be: The game is not uniformly refereed over the whole pitch, at all times. There are countless phases of play played after a major offence has occurred in general play, only for a miniscule transgression to ultimately be used to shape the outcome of a goal incident. These illegitimate phases of play, and the intervention to scrutinise certain incidents completely change, and shape, the games. The net effect is that football games have become a thing that they never were, uncertainty over the 'spirit' of the game, versus the interpretation of the laws, are completely opaque and change on an incident by incident basis. The officiating now reinforces falling over in the proximity of contact, and general cheating, rather than rewarding strength, guile, and bravery. In reconciling any individual officiating decision, the explanation is often completely contradictory to other individual officiating decision. Such that people accept the most ridiculous interpretations of the laws, without being able to predict with certainty the outcome of any event - they can make any decision, and tell you that up is down in order to justify it, and regularly do. Often reversing polarity on a clearly similar event elsewhere, or at a different time.
Now of course it's possible that they have completely ruined the game by accident, because they are completely shit. But you would think if that was the case they would try to fix it (I mean correct the problems).
They are not trying to correct the problems. So they must be trying to fix it.
No. That's what they told you. It has never been used in that way, and there has been no attempt to use it that way (I told you all before it was introduced how to do that, without impacting on the flow of a football game, if that was what the objective was). It has only been used to re-referee goal incidents, and grudgingly the occasional incidence of serious foul play in general play (they have to really, otherwise the clamour of "what the merry fuck is it there for" would be even more deafening).
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This is true but Wood is playing to the rules as they are currently written. He’s deliberately standing goal side of the defenders to make it difficult for them to track him. If the rules were different, he’d play differently.
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I never said he wasn't. My point is the rules are rubbish, even though he two rubbish decisions combined to the right outcome.
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I’ve just seen a still of Elanga being offside. Terrible decision. Wanted to rule that one out.
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VAR remains stupid because it pretends to impose an objective reality on subjective decisions. The Elanga offside is a brilliant example. It's surely "too close to call".
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What concerns me, is that there is no debate or acknowledgement that the method that they use is subject to a combination of errors (uncertainty) as any measurement is. We draw our lines, we tell you that it's an objective truth, and up is down, and off we all go.
Now I know for a fact that football has access to people who understand the inherent error margins. Because it's anyone who has ever had any scientific or engineering training ever. So why is there no attempt to incorporate that into the process, or a recognition of it? Instead we have people responsible for officiating football matches, who don't really know what football looks like, driving graphics workstations unbelievably slowly and with no signs of competency, while not understanding perspective, frame rates, or how to draw lines between things.
And we are supposed to just swallow their up is down nonsense, and get on with things like we haven't noticed? Come on.
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Cricket accepts margin of error hence the umpires call decision. But we are expected to accept that the football equivalent is accurate to a fraction of a mm.
Utter bollocks.
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The toenail offside. Grimly fascinating how people swallow the narrative...."well, if he's off, he's off". We have to share air with these people, and they vote (no wonder we are in such a dark place). There should be some sort of test. I do genuinely feel like top level football has been taken from me. I'm constantly bemused that more people don't feel the same way.
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Sampling error being a major factor in most scientific analysis. In weather forecasting, it is simply impossible to take observations of every point in the atmosphere at a specific time. So, they use the sample observations as an operational run, and re-run the forecasts a further 50 or so times with very slight alterations to the input parameters in order to allow for sampling bias. Obviously once you get past a certain time period in the future, the forecasts start to diverge wildly, so they use blends of likely outcomes to provide forecasts over a certain period (hence the % chance of precipitation on weather apps).
In the case of VAR and offside, it seems to me the only way you could draw anything approaching an accurate line is having a set of cameras immediately above the player who may be offside, as anything else will be influenced by perspective. Not possible, so as you see, allow for margin of error, and if someone is less than a certain amount offside then let the original decision stand. Cricket seems to understand this with umpire's call.
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Margins of error are typically drawn around a calculated mean or median. So to even come up with some sort of 'fuzzy line' for offside, you've still got to put the centre line somewhere. Now all you've done is move the argument over where the line is from the line that is currently drawn, to the edge of the margin of error area or line. You've turned a line into a rectangle. It doesn't help. For the cameras/general public I guess you could not draw the central line. It would fool people into thinking that they were taking the error into account, when infact it's no better than it was before.
