The managerial merry-go-round

You do like to go into bat for this guy, don’t you.

Best case scenario is that his partner made the whole thing up and he was unfairly hounded out of a job where’s he paid a fortune to do sport into another job where’s he’s paid a fortune to do sport. In a world where most actual abusers suffer no consequences at all, even when that abuse is known and proven, that doesn’t seem like an outcome worth fussing about. It is not indicative of a worrying trend.. as evidenced by the utter lack of a worrying trend.

We all know that the more likely thing is that he is (or, at least, was) an abuser.. but held sufficient power over his partner that she decided against taking it any further. Because that is what usually happens and, yes, very often with the abused person saying in the abusive relationship.

If they are still together then it follows that either he forgave her for besmirching his name and interrupting his career. Or she forgave him for being an abuser.. or she is just unable to leave that relationship for reasons (likely) none of us could understand. We know the most likely option because, absent a window into their lives and thoughts, we have statistics to go on.

He’s good at football. So fucking what?

Innocent until proven guilty is a standard that the state must follow. For the rest of us it’s a choice. We can use our eyes if we want.

Fwiw, I'd rather Leed stay up than WHam. Much as I like Nuno, I've got Leeds supporters as friends, and no Hammers.
Tottenham by a country mile though

Very popular I hear at Scavenger, Cotgrave's version of Harvester.

I wouldn't want Greenwood anywhere near us, but totally agree that our line drawing is usually much more about convenience than moral integrity.

Yes. And most of them would also go to watch the game if Mason Greenwood was playing. People can opt out of football entirely, if they want, due to the unsavoury people involved. Or they can loudly protest those unsavoury people but, ultimately, hold their nose and put up with it. It’s easier for, say, ManYoo fans to get Greenwood booted out than Jim Radcliffe… that’s not fair, but most things aren’t.

Er, yeah.. that’s just daft m8. You keep banging on about the brand.. but it’s the brand that makes being good at football a lucrative and high-profile career. They can’t be separated. Without the brand, Mason Greenwood is a legend at park footy.. but he works in B&Q and nobody on twitter hears about it if he beats his girlfriend up.

It’s not supported by the legal system, which is but one way that ‘society’ expresses and asserts its values and scrutiny.

No. And?

This just completely ignores all the times people didn’t do this. Loads of supporters protest shitty owners and, sure, mostly get on board if results are good.. but some walk away.. some go and establish AFC Wimbledon or FC United. Plenty are very aware of the wider fantasy and they make their choices. Supporters are as powerless to get rid of petrostates as they are, TBH, to get rid of people who assault their partners. Powerful people make those decisions and, damn right, they’ll throw a young player under the bus but let Jim Radcliffe be a racist prick and line up to glorify the upcoming international celebration hosted by a country led by a rapist fascist war criminal. It sucks. But it’s not a reason to just turn a blind eye to how players conduct themselves. And on a societal level, seeing someone like Mason Greenwood face consequences for doing what most people believe he did, does make an impression on others.. cos it’s that bit closer to home.

I find this a fascinating debate
Innocence in the eyes of the law vs innocence in the eyes of the public.
And where do we stand on prison/sentencing - punishment v rehabilitation.

It came up at a lower level recently.
This guy scored the winner for Bradford-based Route One against my non-league team Brigg.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reece_Thompson_(footballer)

Thompson was jailed for a fairly horrific crime against his partner, served his sentence and was released.
www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/ex-north-ferriby-united-footballer-2746070
Post-release, a number of clubs refused to sign him or faced massive criticism if they tried to.
Selby Town
Wombwell Town
Route One's position is the player they know bears no resemblance to the man jailed seven years ago, he has served his punishment and should be rehabilitated into society.

Does rehabilitation also involve some form of sacrifice? I went to see Punch the other weekend at the Nottingham Playhouse. Jacob Dunne's rehabilitation is emotionally powerful and inspiring, but it took humility and sacrifice not only by him but also by his victim's parents, especially his mother. It's a difficult thing to assess really, what exactly represents restorative justice verses just getting away with it? It feels like rehabilitation isn't about doing your time and then carrying on as before, it has to involve some sort of change too, but what exactly that looks like will be different in every case.

We have to delegate the criminal justice system to the state, and the state should generally have pretty strict standards for who gets imprisoned, and even err towards lenience in sentencing and release. Prison doesn’t really rehabilitate people.. that’s just what we like to say because it seems more noble than the truth, which is that it punishes, it deters, and sometimes it protects the rest of us.

Sentencing policies are a hot mess and I don’t think people should feel like they ought to accept sentences as the final say on how long someone needs to suffer consequences.

I have no trouble with the notion that a footballer who commits a violent crime might not get to be a footballer again, even when his sentence is done. There are lots of other jobs he wouldn’t be able to get either with that on his record.. we have criminal history checks for jobs precisely because literally nobody thinks that someone is automatically rehabilitated the moment they walk out of prison.

There absolutely is. Partly because, sometimes, we can. Also, partly because the ones we can’t reach control the message and they decide, to a great extent, who ought to be slapped. And they protect their own.

It’s awful. I know a lot of people can’t see it.. but I’m not one of those people.

But, y’see, I think, on the balance of probabilities, that Mason Greenwood is a violent piece of shit who’s doing extremely well in life despite that.. so I give no fucks at all if he’s being treated more harshly than any number of much bigger and richer violent pieces of shit. I don’t know what’s behind your reflex to stick up for him, but I don’t think it’s good.

Can't believe they went with Scavenger when Nottingham Forage is right there.

Nottingham Farage?

On the Greenwood debate, de Zerbi clearly feels quite strongly which may or may not endear him to fans. I think it’s a particularly tin-eared statement.

“I have seen the statements from the fans, but I am here to save Tottenham from relegation, not to be a politician. I said it in Marseille and I will say it again in London: Mason is my footballing son. When the whole world was against him, he gave everything for me. If the board gives me the budget this summer, he is the very first player I am calling to bring here. The fans have to make a choice — do you want to survive in the Premier League and win, or do you want to complain about the past?”

I think you may have fallen for a simple lampoon.