• 2 Mar 2026, 10:27 a.m.

    I genuinely don't know what people mean when they say things like 'the tactics are shit'. So I'm going to have a go at explaining what I think, when I think about tactics (and how they are inextricably linked to strategy and selection), and invite comments.

    Strategy

    For me this is the broad overview of how we are going to go about how we might play, and it can take a number of forms. These things might be true for every game, but they might depend on who you are up against and how much of the ball you have. There is am overlap with 'values' and 'philosophy' here.
    We might have a few broad brush stroke thoughts - we might use some, or all
    - Make the pitch big when we have the ball, small when we don't.
    - Sit deep and narrow, and keep the distances tight so that we can't get played through. Break quick on turnover.
    - Play high, press tight, close spaces all over the pitch, try to turnover the ball up the pitch
    - Match up one to one, track runs, and win battles
    - Use the full width, get in crosses
    - Get the ball wide, pull their shape, come inside into the spaces
    - Go long, get them turned
    - play up to the striker, who gets hold of it, lay off to advancing midfield to get up the pitch
    - defending the break, first centre-half contact on the ball, second centre-half sweep behind
    - Prioritise holding possession, moving the ball quickly to tire the opposition, and probe for openings.
    - Prioritise attacking quickly, trying to score, and accepting a higher level of turnover and time without the ball.
    ...that sort of thing.

    Tactics

    Inside that strategic framework, there might be some specific tactics, to achieve particular things in the game. Directed against specific oppononets, or to utilise attributes of your team. Things like:
    - load the left side, to isolate a runner on the far side against their full-back. Play out to a target on the left, switch the ball to a ball player in the middle, who hits a long diag inside the full back for the runner.
    - Run the full-back to get them turned. Chop back to stand them - shot if they don't cover the line to goal, channel run and ball to that overlapping run if they do. First and second phase runs centrally for scoring options
    - Early target man run behind the centre-halves, long diag to drop over the back of them, head to goal, or drop it back for 2nd run.
    - Near post forward runs, for early strike, or miss to hit 2nd run over the penalty spot.
    - Get Yatesy on to rough up and irritate the fancy dan on the oppo team.
    - Striker run to pin the centre-halves, hit the grass wide and behind for the winger to attack.

    Of course there's a blurry line between strategy (values), and tactics. Both can be informed, or fucked up, by selection.

    Selection

    This has an impact on how able you are to execute strategy and tactics. for example:
    - You have good physical attributes in one winger, who is good without the ball, but has a knack of not coming out with the ball when you play it to them. You have another who is mustard on the ball, but gets knocked over by a light breeze, and is positionally terrible without the ball. Do you pick the first one, and hope the slim statistical return gives you an outcome, or do you pick the second for enhanced threat at both ends? Do you change your strategy/tactics to accomodate them, or do you ask them to do the job, and accept the imperfection?
    - You have excellent defenders, but you have terrible backups. How much do you play them 'in the red zone' and through injury - bearing in mind that if you put in a backup the fans will moan that you are clueless, and get you sacked?
    - You have three strikers, one has an excellent all round game, but can't score, the other two can get a goal, but aren't really footballers. Whatchyagonnado?
    - You have two centre-halves, one can run, one can't. How high are you setting up on the pitch - bearing in mind the further up you go, the more space in behind? Oh, factor into this that your goalkeeper can't catch - so the closer you set up to him, the more chance of seconds.
    - What areas of the pitch are you pressing the ball in (loss of shape), and what areas are you setting up in - Bear in mind you are playing at a level largely against faster players, who can pop the ball around you, and have quality to hit the spaces.
    - Midfield, you need competition around the ball when without it, but also quality on the ball when you get it...and you need to join up with attacks, because the forwards (largely) can't score. How do you square that circle with a balanced selection? If you pick more threat (at both ends) how do you cover without the ball?

    Ultimately we have to play football, because more established teams have accumulated better athletes at the level. We can't play process football, because we don't have the best collection of physical attributes in any given game. That means decision making and touch are key. We are likely going to get overrun. But we will have a narrow window where we can get an early ball off into movement. That means playing on the edge a bit, and it means that it mostly wont come off - so you need to cover cheap turnover. When attacking a set defence we can pop it into the mixer, with likely low returns, or we can play it around either with no threat, or with a high likelihood of getting run off it and broken against. No particular evidence that either way yields much of a return.

    Of course this is just a set of examples, and is not comprehensive or coherent. My personal view is that the more that can be addressed with 'values', and leave on the ball decisions in the moment to (what are largely) good players, the better. The more that you stray from these general values, the more that can go wrong 'in game'. Compared with most of our oppostion touch, pass, and movement, have to be spot on to gain an advantage...and they probably wont be most of the time. Of course in Europe where our balance of attributes is generally higher than the opposition the dynamic is often reversed.

    So for me 'tactics' is a big jumble of all sorts of competing considerations. What is it for you? When you say the tactics are shit, do you mean that, or the execution, or that our values are wrong? When you don't like things that happen when we are pointing one way, are you thinking about the impact of doing something different when we are pointing the other way? What is the magic solution that means we win all of our games? - and these things will always be levelled against a manager unless they do.

    Pep is the best manager, because he has the best tactics, yes? So if we played the same tactics when we played them, would we get the best result? (trick question, of course not, we would get bummed) So can you see that the best tactics, are no such thing? It depends on the attributes at your disposal, and who you are playing against. Managers are often accused of being 'negative' and losing because of that, and the plaintive cry goes up that they are useless, and need to be replaced....but is it possible that was actually a good result in the sense that it was less bad than it might otherwise have been? This is not a level playing field. There is not one unit of player that is the same in all cases. Football, generally, is about putting together the best collection of players, and letting the results attrition themselves out. What makes it beautiful is the lumpy statistical nature of the goal and it's impact on a game (though as much as possible has been done to the laws to keep the playing field uneven and the advantage with the more expensive, where aquired for the appriopriate value, squads - such that that attritional advantage wins out more often than not).

  • 2 Mar 2026, 10:42 a.m.

    Skill is the learned ability to bring about pre-determined results with maximum certainty, after with the minimum outlay of time, energy or both.

  • 2 Mar 2026, 10:45 a.m.

    I don't think it's tactics per se that are our problem. The issue with Dyche appeared to be (and I say appeared because it's a deal of speculation based on comments) that the players didn't like him (and even less Woan) and his methods, they wanted less regimented set ups and more freedom to play and enjoy themselves. This feeds into the idea that modern footballers need to be managed with empathy and emotional intelligence rather than shouted at and managers like Dyche are as a result old hat, dinosaurs. Of course, that is less easy when the spectre of relegation hangs over you, the atmosphere at the top of the club is likely toxic and the manager is being shouted at too.

    Our problem this season has been self inflicted chaos and anyone in the hotseat is having to deal with that. The players click for short periods but often run out of steam from too many minutes and rely on moments of inspiration. MGW was trying to spark that against Brighton and got a great equaliser but couldn't carry it through the whole game. The tactics debate will make more sense if we ever get a stable situation again, but for now we're firefighting. The lack of any stable and consistent strategy, values, identity, philosophy or anything else we want to call any of it has been a problem for Forest for decades and is harshly exposed when panic sets in and we just start chucking shit at the wall. If anything, that is our true identity over the last few years and anyone who has succeeded even briefly in that time deserves a medal.

  • 2 Mar 2026, 11:01 a.m.

    I don't/didn't either. But that is what many people were saying, and that it was shit to watch ( #newsflash - teams struggling against the odds are often shit to watch).

    I get that. Though it doesn't necessarily mean that would give better outcomes. Sometimes if players are free to express themselves, they do the wrong fucking things, and lose the teams identidy (values, philosophy, strategy). Some players play better when they are pissed off and under pressure.

    Personally I subscribe to the sort of footballing values that Dyche has, but I prefer a supportive enabling approach of someone like O'Driscoll.

    It's a really difficult balance to strike. Integrity in character and personality in a manager is also important...or the players will sniff them out.

  • 2 Mar 2026, 11:59 a.m.

    And it takes time, which no one ever gets. Even Cooper who had a longer tenure than most was being actively undermined from above for a large portion of that time.

  • 2 Mar 2026, 1:07 p.m.

    I’ll have a go.

    We are missing “desired outcome” when we grab Regis debate. In particular, what the owner’s and fans’ expectations are.

    A current good example is Arsenal. Apparently, that squad cost £1.2B with boatloads of talent but the only desired outcome from all concerned is winning the league. They are happy to do this by scoring goals from corners and set pieces, feigning injury and generally shithousing. Their fans will wank themselves stupid to “North London Forever” and not give two shits how they won it. So long as they win it. On the flip side are Spurs who somehow feel they deserve beautiful football at the Lane, but have to accept that they may go down as a result.

    We were the same under SSC in our first season up. Objective: Stay Up. There was no discernible style of football, it was sometimes attritional and we just wanted to stay up. First full season under Nuno we played a style that was suited to the players and highly effective. Until it wasn’t. Didn’t stop us dreaming of Champions League and our historic place at the table.

    We’ve can debate strategy and tactics but without a clearly defined outcome it’s difficult to judge. The reality is many people (starting with EM) had unrealistic expectations for this season. In my mind, anything more than “mid table security, no drama with a nice Inter-rail trip thrown in” was probably too much.

    As a result, there has been no discernible strategy, inconsistent tactics with mixed execution. We’ve now gone through 4 managers, each with a slightly different philosophy. Nuno threw his toys when Edu arrived, Ange was still pining after Spurs and Dyche was far too rigid and stuck in the Clough years. Difficult to know about Vitor but it’s looking a bit meh at the moment but difficult to really judge. At least he tried a plan B yesterday (which neither Ange nor Dyche ever did) even if some of the personnel were not up to it. I take that as a positive. The problem I had with Dyche was both the results and the performances were on a downward trend after a good start. He also showed few signs of changing anything.

  • 2 Mar 2026, 1:40 p.m.

    I think we have to get rid of a results mindset and focus on an inputs, process mindset, but we've been in that debate for years too. We are too reactive to results, make panic decisions and don't believe in any of it unless we win. That's Marinakis. He is a very rich man, he runs another club in a league where his money makes a massive difference because he's the biggest fish in that sea, he acts and then if it turns out he made a mikstake he acts again and pays the consequences, but here we are the underdog and we need a plan to maximise our resources. This summer we reacted to a massive overperformance by trying to treat it as a natural progression.

  • 2 Mar 2026, 1:44 p.m.

    You've had a go at environment and execution, which there is little broad disagreement on. You just toss off 'there has been no discernible strategy, inconsistent tactics'. Could you put a bit more meat on these bones? I'm trying to understand what people are seeing when they say things like this, and 'the tactics are shit'. Because I'll be honest, I just can't see it. So I need help from those who can. What do these words actually mean in practice on the grass?

  • 2 Mar 2026, 1:44 p.m.

    I got this far before I got annoyed. You can't redraw the lines every time a tackle goes in. We'd still be playing a Thursday evening game on Saturday morning.

    I'll try to work my way through the rest.

  • 2 Mar 2026, 1:47 p.m.

    Mistime the tackle, and then there's plenty of time for the groundsmen to re-mark the pitch, while the guys in the broom cupboard consult the bible and try to work out what football looks like.

  • 2 Mar 2026, 3:02 p.m.

    We still need to define desired outcome. As I mentioned, I was for mid-table obscurity and a nice Euro adventure. This would have required an evolution in football style from where Nuno ended last season, as several teams where happy to sit back against us and we had no plan B, as well as more personnel to manage two games a week.

    You didn’t define desired outcome/expectation.

    Anyway, you’ve listed a bunch of strategy and tactics (although some of the items in your strategy list are really tactics. Hey ho. Potayto/potarto). I would argue that at various times under different managers we have tried several of them (not all). With varying federal of success. Hence my comment about inconsistency.

    The “tactics are shit” when they instruct the team to be so passive as to invite such incessant pressure that a goal is inevitable through player error, or they lack any ambition (especially against an inferior side) to blow an opportunity. Or they are flawed when they are clearly not working (even if well executed) or the opposition plays in a way that you were not expecting. The latter two require you to change your tactics, not do more of the same. Dyche (and to a degree Ange) utterly failed to change his approach. And refused to accept any responsibility.

    The tactics are also shit when they make my eyes bleed.

    For all our executional faults yesterday, and there were several culprits, Vitor tactically did two things:
    1, He got Sels to fake an injury to issue a team talk mid way through the first half. I don’t know what he said but it stemmed the bleeding (whereby BHA were previously waltzing into our box. (Yes, I know Hinshelwood had that header).
    2. He changed to 3-4-3 after about 55mins which did change things up and gave us two or three respectable chances that Jesus/Taiwo etc could have taken.

  • 2 Mar 2026, 3:49 p.m.

    No we don't. There are no tactics that provide a process path towards an aspiration. "finish sixth or higher" doesn't look any different from a strategy/tactics point of view than 'do the best that you can'. It just has extra layers of stupid.

    I noted that. The distinction for me is (in footballing terms) a strategy is something that we always try to do, a tactic is something we do in light of the immediate personel match up (us and theirs). I'm interested in what they are for you, not so much for me. I only explained what they are to me, so that it would help people contextualise what I was specifically asking when I enquired what the fuck they are on about.

    What the fuck are you on about? (subjective, hinsdsight based, claptrap with {once again} no discussion of the actual tactics to which you obliquely refer).

    You could equally say that in a previous game (under this, or previous managers) at many points in the game they didn't change things up, which gave us two or three respectable chance that Jesus/Taiwo etc could have taken.

    This seems to be purely a subjective biased account based on personal feelings...and not really anything to do with tactics. Okay - he went to three at the back (got them to stand in a different place as a starting position) - tactically what did that lead to? What did it allow us to do that we couldn't before? Or was it just a random shuffle of the pack to make Guru's eyes feel better? The outcome was exactly what it was before (barring a missed chance from a set piece) - why tactically was that change better than what came before? Or did it just make you feel a bit better because it created the illusion of something happening?

    My personal jury is out on whether these are masterstoke tactical interventions or not. For example, perhaps set up at the start of the game so that they can't waltz through us - or doesn't this provide the necessary eye relief?

  • 2 Mar 2026, 4:30 p.m.

    Once again, you allow personal insults and jibes to get in the way of debate. You need to get that seen to….
    The eyes bleed thing was a joke, I will mark it up next time to make it more obvious.

    I started a detailed response but then realised (a) I have a job and (b) you would just belittle and insult me in an unbecoming way. I’m easily triggered these days so could do without that.

    As you were. I’ll let someone else take the bait.

  • 2 Mar 2026, 4:38 p.m.

    Tricky is a Bellend.

    See happy to step in..

    Hold on I like my comics how do I delete this?......

    Chicago: Crying out for help.

  • 2 Mar 2026, 5:06 p.m.

    Seems a shame that we can't advance this much beyond "the tactics are shit", "what tactics", "I'm not telling".

    Yes chic, I'm a bellend. Try not to throw stones from your glass house. At least not when I have your comics held hostage.

  • 2 Mar 2026, 5:42 p.m.

    I think you meant to say

    Seems a shame we cannot advance this much beyond tricky insulting any one who disagrees with him.

    I genuinely love debating football: philosophy, strategy, tactics, selection. I just don’t think I need to be rude. Unless they are a Liverpool fan.
    I mean, we are all cunts. There’s no need to be a proper cunt.

    Example:
    1. Lump endless crosses into the box to our relatively short striker playing against two giant centre halves. Shit tactics
    2. Lump endless shit crosses into the box to our relatively short striker playing against two giant centre halves. Shit tactics with poor execution.
    3. Put on replacement wingers to lump endless shit crosses into the box to our relatively short striker playing against two giant centre halves. Shit tactics, poor execution, zero managerial agility.
    4. Put on a beanpole striker and play to feet in the channels…..I’ll let you do the rest.

  • 2 Mar 2026, 5:51 p.m.

    We are not disagreeing. There's nothing to disagree about. you still haven't told me what tactics you like, and what you don't like, and why. All you've told me is that those tactics over there are horrible, and those that are here are so much better. I just want to understand what you are actually talking about, so I can take a view.

    Well, did.

  • 2 Mar 2026, 6:11 p.m.

    Where did we land on seat replacement debate? Anyone see an estimate?

  • 2 Mar 2026, 8:26 p.m.

    A google search takes me to a Facebook page called the ‘Football Community’ where a Stephen Barrett says it will be ‘at least £54000’ to put right. Not £50000, £60000 or even £55000, but £54000.

    And his post has 6 likes.

    That’s definitive.