This coming from the guy who is on record as finding it all too difficult or tiresome to remember people's preferred pronouns.
7 May 2023
61
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People are free to think of themselves however they want. I am free to not be interested in what they think. This is how freedom works.
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Sure. But politeness also has a value, so while you're free to disregard others' wishes in the name of your freedom it might also be worth considering whether the personal cost of not exercising it is so egregious when compared to the social cost of doing so.
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What are you on about? Stop oppressing me and depriving me of my rights on the basis of your own idiot ideas. I shall be entirely polite and social to you. I just will not be investing personal resource in memorizing your personal foibles. We all have the freedom to not have to completely change our lives based on your whims. Of course I will support your democratic right to protest that as a society we should. But until it's a societal standard ( the law ). I won't be bothering. I'm just not that interested in you.
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No one's depriving you of any rights. But let me remind you that this conversation began from you defending people changing their usernames from RC's accusation of being weird as simply them expressing their personal freedom to present themselves however they want, but when I offer an alternative scenario using the same principles they suddenly become "idiot ideas".
If I decide I wish to be henceforth referred to by they/them pronouns you've said you "won't be bothering", but an objection to long established community members changing their names is oppressing their personal freedoms. Have you started eyeing up a Daily Mail subscription recently?
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No you didn't.
I suggested that people should exercise their freedoms.
You suggested that I was remis for not investing in other peoples ideas for their freedoms.
I told you to get fucked.
Can you even understand the difference?
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Unless it's a pronoun, in which case you'll take whatever I've decided you are and you can just deal with it.
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No. You entirely misunderstand. I care not what you see yourself as, or how you want to be addressed.
I fully support your right to do so, if it's important to you. I just won't be getting involved in your pronoun nonsense, any more than I will be accepting your chosen label nomenclature and not be giving you a nickname.
Of course it's your right to see yourself as you wish to. As it is my right to see the world as I wish to.
If you have a problem with that, fight me ( by changing the laws with the agreement of a wider society).
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Right. And thus objecting to longstanding users changing their names for their own personal reasons is similarly reasonable, even if they have the right to do so.
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Of course it is. As is discussing it and thinking it's ludicrous.
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But you do understand, don’t you, that pronouns can be rather significant to some people?
Yes, ok, someone who just decides that they don’t really like gendered pronouns and prefers to be ‘they’, but without any background of dysphoria or change in how they present themselves etc… probs not a huge deal if people don’t catch on (Ms noodlé prefers ‘they’ but isn’t hung up on it)… but for someone who is trans and places great important on presenting as the gender they identify as… people exercising their right to not get involved in pronoun ‘nonsense’ may find themselves being cruel for the sake of it.
They have the right to their pronouns, you have the right to not care, but the impact of you each exercising your rights are not equal.
And as I assume you would not, in practice, exercise your right out of sheer obstinance, that suggests the whole thing isn’t quite as silly as you’re making out.
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Ah but I wasn’t registered on the other site Russ, or if I was I forgot my login many moons ago.
You don’t have to try too hard to work out who I am either, the clues in the name. Cryptic.
The last time I saw you i think we were both drunk, in a club of ill repute in Nottingham. The time before that I think we were both drunk, after a heavy night in Bridgford.
There is a common thread developing here. I blame Tricky, it always feels like the best solution. -
Did your old identity rhyme with Gerry Blevin?
If so, welcome back. I wondered if that was who it was.
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I have no interest in denying anyone their pronouns. Or their name. The problem is that there are over 5 billion of them. From a practicality point of view some them are to have to find a way to muddle through without me knowing how they want to be called. If I am to treat everyone equally I shall be dead before I have all the conversations that I have to have before talking to people. Just the thought of it fills me with dread and makes me anxious.
As a matter of fairness I shall aim to avoid addressing people in any gender specific way, and stick to things like "oi, you."
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How am I supposed to call everyone a cunt now with all this confusion?
Chicago: Walking into a minefield.
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Erm, I guess it rhymes if you’ve got a cup to your ear, which is pressed to the wall, but there’s lots of music playing so you can’t quite make anything out…. Gerry/Jim?? But Blevin rhymes with that number anyway :)
I think you’re right though. We played football at Chilwell and you’re now in Oz if I’m on the right lines?
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Ah hello mate. Long time no speak (or drink!)
