• 21 Dec 2023, 8:52 a.m.

    Definitely going to have at least two, maybe three. For a number of reasons. It's the nuno way. We don't have a midfielder who currently can do the job at the level themselves. If we don't get the numbers in there other teams will stroll through us like at the start of coopers premiership adventure.

    It will be a three, and probably a three. With a two up - sacrificing elanga, mgw or wood.

    Those three are no nevez, jota, and jiminez.... and goals were at a premium with them for wolves. So it will be grind out results I expect.

    Wolves had them in the championship. I look at our squad, and what bodies to put where, and I do not see many delightful choices. Nothing of that class.

    I would be massively surprised if we don't bring in four or five at least in January.

  • 21 Dec 2023, 10:09 a.m.

    Don't worry. I'm sure Rio Ave are going to spend big bringing in Mendes clients who they can't wait to loan to us.

  • 21 Dec 2023, 1:01 p.m.

    From how he has organised his teams before and the types of players he likes in certain positions, I think he is really going to get on with Neco Williams (see Matt Doherty), Murillo (Coady on acid) and Elanga (Traore with fewer protein shakes) and that we will see MGW play deeper and more centrally. My hunch though is that the key to it will be if he can get Sangare doing what we hoped he would be able to do which I am hopeful about.

  • 21 Dec 2023, 1:52 p.m.

    What seems to be clear is that peoples* judgement of a player, or squad, is often more based on what has been paid for them, than an assessment of actual attributes relative to the playing level they are deployed at.

    In an entirely meritorious system, with a perfect market for price setting, that would be a perfect guide.

    Those conditions do not exist. There are various tensions causing price fluctuation beyond objective value. Demand/supply, overcoming registration holding club inertia, brand value of the player, contract status, third party inflation (eg agents), age, perceived future value, how integral to owning club, purchasing club usage and plan for realizing residual or enhanced value.

    The less expertise regarding price setting the purchasing club possesses, the more they are likely to pay, for less return. Simply because other parties with their own objectives will maximise those.

    Part of that is how it is believed a player might improve. Who they will learn from. What role is required of them. How they compliment the existing squad skillsets.

    This identification, integration and development, is team/squad building. The absolute bottom rung of that is to start from scratch, with a bunch of players never having played at the level, and just chuck them in and see what works. Which is what we have mostly be doing. You will be, on average, very unlikely to get a return on value paid by this method. As shown by the large number of failures that we have taken a bath on.

    Some consumers like the ongoing drama of constant new shiny, and will expound at length how great a player, and players, are. But actually ask them, and they can't quantity it, and they can't say how these players will fit in, contribute, and develop. They are as good as price paid. They are playing as well as numerical goals and assists. The manager is as good as results.

    Except that 'aint how it actually works. They are just symptoms of the overall system, not just the club. Teams of players have to actually come together and play football.

    If price setting is perfect, clubs with higher financial resources buy the players subject to their spending power, and everyone stays in the same place. Which is the actual plan of modern business. In fixtures. Against other teams of players trying to beat you. If you have a collection of the best players, you can probably make any plan mostly work. If you are at the other end of the scale you need to come up with what might be a less favorable plan, and graft through multiple disappointments to eke out your status.

    If you have no idea where you actually are. You can have no idea how you are doing. What you are doing well, or badly, and what is actually a decent return. If you don't have access to the best players, you need to come up with a new way to buck your current status, or it only ends one way.

    I like to see innovative coaching and player development. It looks like the model that we are going for is cozying up to the agent who has historically had some of the better quality of players. But there really should be more concern over who is price setting, what happens when the flow of cash is no longer sustainable, and what we are getting for what we spend.

    * like owners.

  • 21 Dec 2023, 3:20 p.m.

    Here you go then. An appraisal of some of the players (I can’t remember them all but you can’t hold that against me, I’m not the Memory Man) based on what I’ve seen with my own eyes:
    Neco / Toff – improving assets
    Aina – got to assume he’s just had a bad few weeks because he looked great on either left or right side early on in the season. He’s an asset (probably) and should be back in the squad as cover for either flank
    Aurier – wish he’d gone to Saudi in the summer and left with the memories of last year. We appear to have got Tottenham’s Aurier this year and he’s not up to it
    Niakhate – mainly classy, would be even better in a settled side that isn’t always completely backs to wall – a definite asset
    Murillo – potentially the next Jonno off the rank in terms of getting us over the next FFP hurdle (or whatever it’s called now). If he continues to learn and cuts out some of the errors he’ll be in the crosshairs of the big clubs within 18 months – 2 years
    Boly – occasionally alright but mainly past it
    Worrall – not up to the level but then I didn’t think Wes was either. One to keep and it wouldn’t take much to convince him to stay. He just needs a bit of love
    McKenna – a Championship player
    Felipe – past it
    Turner / Vlachod - or as I like to call them; Shite and Shiter. Nuff said
    CHO – we knew what we were buying (for very little money). Can chip in when fit, looks a threat when he can actually run. I would definitely have him on the bench every game to create havoc.
    Elanga – potentially very good, almost always quite frustrating. There’s an argument to say he’s actually the best finisher at the club which is maybe why Cooper deployed him as a striker (didn’t work). Electric pace. I just don’t think we should be so reliant on him.
    Mangala – it’s taken a while but he’s the best midfielder at the club right now. Definitely player of the season so far. Calm, consistent, efficient
    Danilo – people are writing him off but to me he just looks like he’s trying a bit too hard, and is possibly still trying to get back to full fitness. He’s an asset who could put some coin in the bank in the future but he probably needs careful managing in the way that Pep eases players in at City
    Sangare – I’ve seen flashes of a good player but if you’d asked me who in the squad cost £35million it wouldn’t be him. Was possibly rushed back into the side too quickly after the virus and has struggled since. Will be interesting to see what happens under Nuno. Could go either way.
    Dominguez – there’s a great player in there somewhere. Seems to have downed tools since getting pulled off at half time at West Ham. Another one I’d expect to suddenly look good again under new management
    MGW – annoying. Am fed up of hearing how we should build a team around him. Yes he’s got ability, yes he’s got all the assets, yes just recently he’s been playing out of position, but sometimes potential has to actually deliver. He’s shit in front of goal and his dead ball delivery has been mainly woeful. He would be on the bench fighting to get a run out if I were in charge and I actually think it might do him some good to have a new manager who he has to impress anew
    Kouyate – nah
    Yates – love the guy for his endeavour but if we’re starting games with him, we’re not winning many of them. He’s a class act at his own level and is probably a top-end Championship player in any team other than ours
    Taiwo – looked amazing at the end of last season and the start of this but otherwise has been distinctly average. I like him, I think he’s an asset, I just don’t think he’s the magic bullet to solve all our problems. I also don’t buy the theory that we wouldn’t be in this position if he were fit. That said, I’d like him in the team because he’s still our most likely candidate for goals
    Chris Wood – feel sorry for him. We don’t play to his strengths and he gets vilified for not being able to do what he’s never done. He was never the answer and I’m surprised that Cooper wanted him to much (if that was true) because he doesn’t fit
    Origi – not seen enough of him to make a judgment really other than the game v Fulham where he actually looked pretty useful for the first 20 minutes (along with everyone else) and then disappeared. I don’t understand how everyone has written him off based on a handful of ten minute run outs at the end of games we were chasing
    Not seen enough of the loan guys to be able to make a judgment. My theory is that Cooper got burnt by having too many loans in the promotion team and when they all left it fooked him up so he seems to have been unwilling to use the latest recruits too much. Shame about Santos though as it seems everyone has tipped him for stardom so wouldn’t have minded seeing at least a handful of games from him

  • 21 Dec 2023, 3:30 p.m.

    I make that about eight that you are happy to have starting games currently, of the currently available. With caveats against four of them.

    It's not what I think of when I think of 'good squad'.

    I have Turner as: perfectly fine as a shot stopper, and the Greek as distinctly average in every department of the game.

    Who would have thought I could be more generous than you!

    I missed not seeing Tavares (uh-oh) play for us. I wanted to see his amazing chase his touch act. It wouldn't have helped us win, but elanga needs some support at giving the ball away.

  • 21 Dec 2023, 3:51 p.m.

    8? Sounds about right. No goalies either so they should be fun games.
    I didn't say it was a good squad but I can confirm it's a bloated one. The club is going to lose a lot of money shifting some of the deadwood.

    Oh, and every single keeper should be a good stopper. It's a given. It's all the other stuff - dealing with crosses, organising, distributing etc that makes them good or otherwise.

  • 21 Dec 2023, 4:52 p.m.

    Should be.....worth mentioning with the yank, because the greek isn't. If on balance they should probably go in...they do.

  • 21 Dec 2023, 6:21 p.m.

    Good shot stopper + Kulusevski's goal last Friday = me baffled

  • 21 Dec 2023, 8:15 p.m.

    My personal reckon is that certain players would look better with a different formation. And different combinations. Elanga looked better with Taiwo obvs, and MGW looked unstoppable with Brennan.

  • 21 Dec 2023, 8:42 p.m.

    Despite thinking Cooper needed to go its disappointing it didn't work out. Were all the new signings poor or was he just not getting the best out of them. His low block tactics certainly wasn't working. I don't feel grief and definitely have not shed tears on social media, Cooper was fantastic with the promotion and rightly should have been lauded for it but crikey nobody has died and previous successful managers elsewhere have lost their job. Only time will tell if Nuno will be a success but Cooper in his second year was not going to keep us up. I think regardless of no proof certain players were not happy either with him or his style of player.

    The only manager I didn't want to leave the club in the last 30 years was SD and I was wrong about that as he came to nothing elsewhere. Even Clough stayed two seasons too long. I appreciate what some managers have brought to the club but I support Nottingham Forest not Cooper Fc or Clough FC. Managers like players come and go but the majority of fans stay. Talk of protests and ripping season tickets up, following Cooper to his new club and wishing we were relegated and grown men and woman crying like babies is pathetic.

  • 21 Dec 2023, 9:05 p.m.

    Welcome to the modern world. I think Cooper would have kept us up though. He's better at change management than any coach I've seen here.

    If you think Cooper was wedded to the low block, you might want to shut your eyes for a few years.

  • 22 Dec 2023, 8:45 a.m.

    Regarding development, a line in the Athletic's 'Welcome Nuno' piece concerned me. Apparently, he never watched any of the Wolves youth teams in four years there as he only cared about the first team.
    I don't think any of the current U21 are remotely near first-team level at present, but that's still a concern if (and it's a big if) Nuno is still here in a year or two (we've just lost one highly rated youngster to Villa for example).
    That he's also so closely linked to one agent as well just reminds me of WMD.

  • 22 Dec 2023, 9:32 a.m.

    What doesn't remind me so much of WMD is, by and large, a track record of years and years of success in three of the elite leagues in european football.