• 27 Feb 2024, 8:04 a.m.

    One of the early cases of a club not paying its debts and gaining an advantage over others via administration had rather a lot to do with them buying a (shit) stadium. The argument that FFP shouldn’t prevent clubs from ‘investing’ in their facilities has merit.. but if the idea is to stop clubs running out of money then it’s good to remember that it doesn’t much matter what the money was spent on.

    What exempting spending on facilities does do is advantage those with the deepest pockets and, thus, more likely to be able to dip into additional capital in order to bulk up the income-generating assets that subsequently should increase allowable FFP spend. Good for Man City, less so for us, useless for Luton.

    It was, of course, always incredibly stupid that clubs could ignore the costs of buying a stadium whilst including the income from pretending to sell one. But at least that eventually got dealt with.

    I hope Everton weren’t disadvantaged by genuine stadium expenditure, because the rules say you shouldn’t be. But the whole thing could be abused somewhat. And probably is abused. Let’s say a club is spending £50m on a new stand and £50m on players. They borrow £50m from Wonga at 30% APR, and get a £50m capital injection (or interest free loan) from the owner. They’re going to say that the Wonga loan, and thus the interest, is all stadium debt.. but that’s just presentation and that massive interest bill is still an expense of the club even if the actual capital spend on the stand is excluded. By the sounds of it (per Shady) maybe Everton tried to do this but it didn’t add up so they got dinged. If so, that’s fair enough.

  • 27 Feb 2024, 8:08 a.m.

    Simple answer is no. The cost of building their new stadium is "entirely" written off from their FFP losses.

    The complication is around interest on the loans they took out. Basically the loans they took out before they were granted planning permission can't be counted as stadium costs so they tried to retrospectively reclassify some of those loans as a stadium cost after planning permission was granted.

    The third level (which is where I get a bit more hazy) is that they had a mix of interest bearing loans that they'd used to buy players and interest free loans that they'd used in the early stages of the stadium (design and costs around getting planning through) and then, once planning was granted, tried to retrospectively switch between the two even though it was explicit that the interest free loan was for the stadium.

  • 27 Feb 2024, 8:12 a.m.

    Scousers gonna scouse.

  • 27 Feb 2024, 8:32 a.m.

    The thing about Everton's 20-23 case is that one of the only accepted points of mitigation for the 19-22 case is that the figures have improved over the period. The losses for the three years are something like 60m, 50m, 15m. But if they are also over in the current (20-23) reporting cycle, when that £60m is dropping out, that implies their losses for last season were back over £40m again. Which should be an aggravating factor.

  • 27 Feb 2024, 12:07 p.m.

    Are those actual figures?

    If so that is a very good point and the losses have to be up again or they wouldn't have been charged.

    Seems like we could show positive trends into the 21-24 period as champ lower loss level falls off and the ins and outs may balance a bit more.

  • 27 Feb 2024, 12:23 p.m.

    I was going from memory, this is the quote from the athletic:

    Not that it was given too much weight. It was added that the degree of credit given should be “modest” because Everton’s PSR losses were £58m and £53m in the first two years before “spending brakes were applied in the final year”.

    They are £20m over for the three years, so implies £14m loss in 21/22 and something over £38m in 22/23.

  • 27 Feb 2024, 12:31 p.m.

    What I'm not clear on is whether Everton have formally breached the limits in the past and been told to go away and sort themselves out (how were they compliant in 2018-2021, even allowing for covid?) or whether they were skirting close to the threshold.

    If they have breached in the past, I'd say we have an incredibly good chance of getting away with a suspended deduction. They lean very heavily on precedent.

  • 27 Feb 2024, 12:51 p.m.

    Is there a precedent for how much they lean on precedent?

  • 27 Feb 2024, 1:48 p.m.

    76.237%

  • 29 Feb 2024, 8:18 p.m.

    I like this guy, from The Times

    Crystal Palace’s largest shareholder John Textor has criticised the Premier League’s financial rules saying they prevent smaller clubs from competing against richer rivals.
    The American businessman, who owns 45 per cent of Palace, said it was “not right” for Nottingham Forest to be docked points — Forest are facing a points deduction after accepting they breached Profitability and Sustainability Rules (PSR) last season — and sympathised with the club’s owner Evangelos

    Everton have already been docked six points and are facing another hearing for a PSR breach.
    Asked about PSR, Textor said: “It’s clear that they’re built to make sure that clubs who do not drive significant revenues cannot catch up.
    “It doesn’t matter if you have a billion dollars of cash in a wheelbarrow, you’re not allowed to spend it. Does that make any sense? Marinakis has plenty of money to fund his team but he’s not allowed to. If he spends too much and does what the fans want, somebody comes along and docks him points? That’s not right.
    “Financial Fair Play is a fraud of a term to say it’s about sustainability. The sustainability issue is a fraudulent issue. Sustainability should be about the quality of your balance sheet, not ratios against your profit and loss. Nobody actually thinks that makes sense.
    “If you have a billion pounds of cash and you’re sustainable — more sustainable than most clubs in the league — but you’re not allowed to spend this. Everybody should be saying this, it doesn’t make sense.

    “We have got three billionaires in our ownership group, maybe more. We’re not allowed to spend at the level of teams that are in the top six. Josh Harris has no trouble with money, he just bought an NFL team [the Washington Commanders], he owns the [Philadelphia] 76ers [basketball team]. But Steve [Parish, co-owner and chairman] is not allowed to go out and spend that kind of money, he gets docked points and sent to the second division.
    “I’m just saying you cannot have a rule that says somebody who has the money is not allowed to spend it because their club isn’t big enough. Yet how do you get big ever?”
    Textor was speaking after addressing the FT Business of Football Summit in London where he raised the issue of PSR, suggesting they may be anti-comepetitive.
    He added: “I’ve got to somehow find a way to put Crystal Palace against Erling Haaland, and if you have an injury Palace, you don’t get to pull a £15 million player off the bench, you’ve got to take someone from your academy, because you can’t afford to have that (£15 million) player on your bench. That is not sport. Is anyone really having fun with this? It’s broken.”

  • 29 Feb 2024, 8:24 p.m.

    So they need to get 14 clubs to agree. Everyone’s still restricted once they get into Europe anyway, so it wouldn’t create a total free-for-all.

  • 1 Mar 2024, 8:24 a.m.

    Few bits from Paul Taylor's Athletic piece on Forest's PSR case: theathletic.com/5308309/2024/03/01/nottingham-forest-psr-hearing-explained/?source=emp_shared_article

    Forest are understood to have breached by a higher figure than Everton, who had an overspend of £19.5million on their allowable losses of £105m over a three-year period.
    Forest had been told by Tottenham Hotspur that they would make a bid for the Wales international once the sale of Harry Kane to Bayern Munich was completed. In the meantime, several bids from Brentford were rejected in June, worth in the region of £30m. Forest could have sold their prize asset within the financial period in which their losses were being assessed, but only for a figure that was far below their market value for him, which was £50m. The fact Johnson was not keen on a move to Brentford might also have been a stumbling block.

    Hopefully, the intent from Spurs will help (although it does beg the question of what would have happened if Kane to Bayern had fallen through).

  • 1 Mar 2024, 8:45 a.m.

    Of if Brennan had got a serious injury in the games we played him in while we waited for that bid.

  • 1 Mar 2024, 8:48 a.m.

    The rules are definitely broken, but I think the bigger issue is the proliferation of billionaires at clubs rather than the restrictions on their spending.

  • 1 Mar 2024, 8:56 a.m.

    I did read this:

    As more of an aggravating factor but I guess it plays against Everton being warned in January 21 they were in trouble and not actually being charged until the period ending in the summer of 22. We are going to claim we had a problem cause by our somewhat unique circumstances (promotion after 23 years with hardly any players) but it was brief and, as of now, in the past.