Welcome to the Toton dream.
-
Isn't it all about keeping the possession stats high...
-
Totonham Forest
-
You see why that doesn’t work?
-
Honestly, no.
-
Spuds could have made that interesting with Son 1 on 1 against the reserve keeper but the soppy sod missed and Citeh went the other way and scored. Spurs can't help being Spursy can they?
Chicago: Bored by the result.
-
Explain?
-
If we build a great stadium like Spurs in Toton (or potentially anywhere) we will be looking to bring in more 'tourist' supporters, paying top dollar for hospitality. This mutes the atmosphere.
At the moment the City Ground atmosphere is very different to many other grounds (eg Spurs) where supporters only cheer when things are going well, a sense of expectation/entitlement pervades many grounds where fans expect to be entertained and see their team winning. The idea of supporting the team to help them win seems to have gone.
That's what I think we will end up with as we push for higher matchday revenue in a new stadium.
Even now at the City Ground the atmosphere for a cup game where many non regulars get tickets is notably different.
-
Firstly Spurs built their ground on pretty much the exact site as their old one. They didn’t move. As a stadium, it is fantastic. The cunty, entitled anti-Arsenal attitude has existed for years. And I don’t remember WHL having a belting atmosphere. So the argument about it being due to a new stadium doesn’t really hold weight.
I’m not sure what to make about your comments about “tourist fans” and “non regulars”. Successful clubs with star players will generate broader support from across the region, the country and the world. In Spurs case, they have a lot of Korean fans who adore Son. I think that’s fantastic. With respect to Forest I’ve been supporting the club for decades and these days I can’t get anywhere near a home ticket. I rely on the goodwill of others for the occasional away ticket and paid through the nose for the play off final. I’m not the only one on this board who falls into that category. And the waiting list for season tickets is very long. It suggests the club could do with a larger stadium. It seems to me that you only want people in the ground who got on the big red train at a particular moment in time. No outsiders.
-
It's not just Spurs with a bad atmosphere, it's City, West Ham, United, Liverpool, Arsenal. It's not just the new ground that drives this, but the revenue needed to be successful and then once you are successful drives a different fan base that creates a different, lesser atmosphere.
A new stadium probably accelerates that.
Your criticised Spurs fans singing, all I'm saying is that is true at a lot of clubs these days. I've not studied why but I assume new stadia and different fans attracted is a part and that will almost certainly happen to Forest if they get more successful and move grounds (the Toton dream has positives and negatives put another way).
-
Just on this because I see it a lot on social media.
Half season tickets were available at Christmas of the promotion season, so it's not like you had to put your name down at birth to get one like the MCC or something.
-
Is anyone against the 2019 plans to rebuild the main stand and expand the ground by 8-10k?
People are against moving, and to Toton in particular, and against pricing out the people who were part of the crowd during the promotion season and, probably, the best two or three seasons of CG atmosphere in my lifetime.
-
I don’t understand your point. That the supporters you think are not as good as the ones with season tickets could, themselves, have had season tickets if they’d got in early enough? And? So would they then be good supporters instead of the ones who did get season tickets? It doesn’t seem to make any difference to anything. It still comes down to ‘regulars = good, irregulars = bad’ and your assumption that a bigger ground will be topped up by irregulars (who are bad). Because, what, there is a limit to how many good supporters can exist? Or, by some massive quirk of luck, our current cohort of regulars are the only good ones out there?
Having held a season ticket for over 20 years, I’ve enjoyed many a period of great atmosphere and many a period of dross. It’s almost as if it’s not got a lot to do with how regularly people attend games.
-
I'm still working on my formula but I find the debate on tourist/plastic fans quite interesting because for most of us there have always been tickets, yes the odd sell out and you had to earn your stripes for a cup final or big away game but in the last 3 years we've joined the membership revolution. This changes the dynamic. As football is over subscribed money will win out but it's because of the legacy fans it's so fashionable. A Brazilian fan drawn to the WFCG by the brilliance of Murillo to watch him dismantle Sheffield United isn't really going to have particularly strong opinions about the NUM non-ballot of 1984 so will probably enjoy the atmosphere but is more likely to be an observer than a contributor. Not a bad thing in itself, I've watched football in Argentina and Australia so I've been the tourist as well but when I was I'm aware I wasn't part of 'it'. It's obviously a much maligned part of football fandom, anger, angst etc, all negative but you read through any match thread on here everyone is guilty of it, a player/manager/ref not up to it, clubs you don't like, the cheer that goes up when Brennan Johnson clumps Richarlison etc etc. Pontificating about how it's all about the quality of the football is fine, we all enjoy good football rather than Megson, but it's disingenuous if there's no contrition that Peterborough, Coventry, Wembley aren't the games you treasure and the real reasons behind that. That's why people worry about losing 'It'. If you don't bring 'It' then do you know where we are? Women's football. Great and all that but you're not really going call Mary Erps a fucking cunt at the top of your voice if she spills a dolly.
-
@noodle lots of issues getting conflated here.
On atmosphere, my observation is that many premiership teams have very quiet home support in recent years. Forest do not (yet). My hypothesis is that changing grounds, increasing hospitality and more casual supporters are contributing to this as it doesn't seem to be correlated to on pitch performance (Man City prime example).
On the season ticket front, again my observation on social media and the 10k+ on the waiting list for season tickets is that season tickets could be acquired very recently and thus there are at least some folks who only want one now we are in the Prem. That's fine success breeds interest, but there's also a big inference at times that it has been years since tidkets were available which isn't true.
-
@Ingo pretty much nailed my thinking too.
