I think he prefers to be known as Jacob now.
-
Give a bloke a ladder and he gets ideas.
-
My Dad was a vicar in the Church of England. Luckily for me he was also a lovely guy, plenty of charity and kindness and not much indoctrination. He also had a low opinion of evangelicals, and disliked fundamentalists of any religion. But it did mean I got a childhood full of church services, singing in the choir etc. Yet even when I was 'confirmed' at age 12, I still didn't really believe any of it. I half expected some great revelation in my teenage years, instead I discovered girls and the Clash.
My point being that no amount of 'indoctrination' will succeed if the child is bright and can think for themselves. And it sounds to me as though you have a very bright daughter. I think Tricky's advice is spot on. Discuss 'big' issues (life, the universe and everything) with her and she will have the tools to protect her from evangelical nonsense. So I would agree with the majority here. Let her go to the Christian rock thing. She'll have a great time, and I doubt will come home swinging incense or chanting plainsong.
-
I went to Catholic schools and ended up a few seriously Christian happy-crappy things. I liked playing the music at mass and gave up my Friday break times voluntarily to do that for three or four years. Throughout this, I thought that the god stuff was a load of bollocks and the people who were into it were weird and wrong. I think that people who fall into that shit tend to either have very religious families, or issues at home that lead them to seek community elsewhere.
If your kid is happy and well-adjusted, I don’t think you have anything to worry about… but there are no guarantees so don’t come crying to me when she firebombs a gay bar.
-
I've got Electric Six on the phone, asking if you fancy a pint?
-
The residential will create some great memories with her friends who she may not see again when they move schools, don't deny her that experience.
But keep talking to her about how stupid the god stuff is.
-
My 9yo (who attends Catholic primary school) has just come back from a three-day residential at The Oakes, a "Christian activity centre".
She said there was one Christian activity, then none of the kids bothered with the rest, which were optional. But she had an amazing time (rafting, muddy assault course etc) and can't stop talking about it.
My eldest also went five years ago, had a brilliant time, but said there was a lot of quiet reflection etc.I'm with Pantzcat though...
Although, as probably the only regular church-goer on here, I can't endorse part two.
-
I'm Spartacus too.
I too am a regular church goer (although not as regular as in the past) I understand people have different experiences, but in my experience the people at church haven't been overly "preachy" and have just been nice and supportive. I did come from a Church going family, and I have no doubt that is why I attend too.
-
There's at least one other active church member on here that I'm aware of, but it's not for me to out him.
Like the web fingered one, my Dad is an Anglican vicar. My attitude towards organised religion was akin to Chicago's through my teenage years, but I've come to realise that a lot of churches do far more good, both internally and externally, than they do harm. Most of them don't really bother with the whole fire and brimstone thing, especially in the Anglican Church and its even more liberal offshoots, and their primary role is as a social organisation with a semi-voluntary moral code.
In my experience the world has a strong tendency to promote the big evils done in the name of religion, but neglects to promote the myriad daily small goods. Even in my Dad's rural parish, one that is fairly typically characterised by bake sales, coffee mornings and middle class countryside racism, it's rare that there isn't some kind of project underway to help someone, be it carol singing in aid of local food banks or knitting scarves and hats for locally placed refugees working on farms or a book drive to raise money for a child needing to go overseas for a medical procedure. I'm sure the same is true for parishes and mosques and gurdwaras around the world.
-
It's interesting how many light touch religious types are apologetic for the religious bits.
Most mainstream religions preach some deeply dangerous and sinister stuff, that is profoundly anti-social, and (literally!) demonises people and behaviours that are in fact normal and reasonable. I don't have a big problem with anyone who is in it for the coffee mornings, the activities, and the get togethers. After all, church's often have the best gear and buildings (coercively acquired from the poor and desperate).
Personally I would prefer to establish an effective secular community/society...but it's hard when the russians are investing so much in destroying it.
What I just can't get my head around is people who say that they are a bit religious, but not some of the nuttiest bits. Well, the word of god(s), of your choosing is either infallible, or the whole thing is a cavalcade of bollocks. That's the way divinity should work. Such people are, consciously or sub-consciously, just accepting a doctrine/dogma and accepting a system of control.
Of course some of it can make people feel good, and be useful, and of course there are the odd good ideas for society and living (amongst the terrible and the divisive). My view would be to take them, and not worship a stopped clock, just because occasionally it gives you a good answer. We are not children, surely we can structure a more complex understanding of the world than 'man in the sky says it's bad'? On an intellectual and evidential level, I just don't get it.
Of course people can have their beliefs...but please do remember that most of us are wrong about most things, most of the time.
If mankind had entirely followed the doctrine of religion that was imposed on the mass populations, much of the knowledge, progress, and opportunity, that you take for granted in a modern world, would not exist.
-
This..
Also I said that I hated religion but rock climbing is probably alright as a one off activity as long as you don’t get wind of something else going on. Glad you read my entire post.
I could go on but we should think of the children. Unless your name is Pete and then you definitely shouldn’t!
Chicago: Firmly in the Tricky camp.
-
Isn't the word of God open to interpretation, it's not a simple hard and fast rule like offside? The KJ bible is just one write up, and your church/brand follows what they like, it's not absolute like the word of the PGMOL.
-
Babelfish says: "Isn't completely made up shit open to interpretation, they can't be expected to identify truth for all time - best leave it a bit woolly, if you want to keep them hooked in? Just make up your own book, and own rules, to suit the population that you want to control, dependent on who you want to fuck, marry, and
beheadavoid, at the time. We'll sort out the problems with the made up bollocks down the line, this lot are thick as mince. At the worst we'll turn into the rotary club, and keep the land and buildings." -
I'm not going to put too much effort into defending organised religion because I don't have especially strong feelings about it, but there is an innate conceit amongst many atheists / agnostics that they are free thinkers and somehow possessed of a greater degree of enlightenment than the stooges who slavishly follow religious mantra, and my experience has been that neither side of that coin is especially correct. It's lazy and reductive to throw all followers of religion into the Young Earth bucket, but there's a tendency to do just that by assuming that anyone who goes to church is abandoning all critical function in favour of dogma and devotion. The fact is that religion, science, faith and pragmatism can and do all live quite happily together in many people's lives, and do so in a way that is an inarguable positive.
Dismissing all religion as bad and a thing to be hated is every bit as much dogmatic extremism as believing that all non devotees are infidels.
-
Excellent playing the man, rather than the ball, there.
Name me one thing that is an undoubted fundamental truth at the core of the central beliefs of any organised religion?
For the life of me I can't really think of one. Personally I think lying to people about the beliefs that they frame their entire life, hopes, and dreams, around is at least a bit rude, if not fundamentally evil. The fact that some of the parishes in the home counties, have a jolly time, and are actually rather nice chaps, is not really the point, is it?
You can have a jolly time, and be a nice chap, without all the lies and centuries of oppression. Which, experience teaches us, the church would absolutely still be trying to get away with, if it were not for the fact that knowledge and enlightenment has somewhat nicked their cudgels.
-
Much though it pains me to agree with the Cantankerous Canadian, I think he's right here, and in his previous post. Most religious practice is social in nature. Followers follow because they think it is the morally good thing to do. Though I reject the supernatural, there's plenty in the Sermon on the Mount to give pause for thought. And in a universe in which a photon can be both particle and wave simultaneously, we should avoid reductive certainty, or at least the vitriolic version of it.
