LET’S MASH THE SPUDS! (A match thread)

I'm now thinking Cooper should go, it seems to be a win win. Either things improve in which case happy days or they don't/get worse in which case Russ looks like a total tool.

The flipside to that coin is that if things do improve then you're required to laud me as a football savant whose opinion is better than yours.

Previously when we weren't playing well there was no suggestion that the squad wasn't united, that it wasn't built around a loyal core of players who understood the manager and the club and the fans and the city, and that everyone wasn't pulling in the same direction to get things righted, but this time it's a mess. We've got high profile, much lauded signings who can't get on the pitch because the manager can't figure out how to use them effectively, and we've got loyal club servants training on their own because the manager has pushed them out. I think that we're at the stage that things are starting to fall apart on Cooper's watch and that someone else has a better chance of putting them together.

The reality is that, as ever, no matter what the club does we'll never know what else would have happened. Maybe a new manager oversees a continued collapse that was unarrestable due to Cooper having made too much of a mess of things to correct in time. Maybe he rides the crest of an uptick in form that would have happened anyway under Cooper. I won't take any pleasure in seeing the departure of the the most successful and popular manager we've had in over two decades, but I do think that he might have reached the limit of what he can do here.

Honestly Russ, your anti Cooper bias is so obvious. Of all the options you set out after Coopers departure, you don’t even recognise the possibility of the option that Coopers replacement does worse than Cooper. The option that the club fragments, fans start to revert to the toxic norm, players who have invested in Cooper split into cliques and any team cohesion goes down the drain, Jan transfer window is again a complete mess with no sense of purpose, and we give up any semblance of unified fight as a club.

That's very perceptive of you, to discern my anti Cooper bias from such thinly veiled statements as "I think that we're at the stage that things are starting to fall apart on Cooper's watch and that someone else has a better chance of putting them together" and "I do think that he might have reached the limit of what he can do here". And I would have gotten away with it but for you pesky kids.

Yes, I would like to see Cooper replaced. I'm sorry if you thought I was somehow attempting to disguise that and that there were some lines that needed reading between.

And no, I don't really recognise the possibility of Cooper's replacement doing worse, because I don't really see how he can. 1 win in 13, a dressing room that has clearly already fallen apart, the club captain exiled, our previous two transfer windows have resulted in exactly the same league position and results as we had after the same number of games last season but this time we are bottom of the Premier League form table and we don't even have the home fortress that we were able to rely on last season.

I respect the blind faith that many are still hanging onto and why, but as things stand we are going to be relegated, and we are going to be relegated quite comfortably.

He's right.

That's fair. One of us will get to find out at some point this season if they were right or not.

I mean, he's demonstrably not. "We shouldn't have been promoted two years ago" and "we should have been relegated last season" are blatantly incorrect statements, because we earned promotion and we earned 17th and both of those things are in large part due to Steve Cooper. They're also not connected to the mess we find ourselves in now, I believe it's worse than it was last year and I believe that Cooper might have reached his expiry date as all managers do. I might be wrong and I might not be, but making definitive statements about it - especially from the outside looking in - is just dumb.

None of us know who is available to us. It's a fair bet that if one of the names floating around- Lopetegui, Potter, Austrian chap - was, Cooper would be fine already.

The two Luton goals were scored because Worrall lost his man both times.

And if it's the case that none of them are interested, then that gives us a pretty good indication of how the club is perceived by those outside the club, how likely it is that we can recruit a replacement of consequence, and why we should temper expectations as a result. We're a club that hasn't sniffed the Premier League for 25 years, having (at this stage) a brief moment in the sun but going through second season syndrome while our top goalscorer is injured.

They're also not connected to the mess we find ourselves in now, I believe it's worse than it was last year and I believe that Cooper might have reached his expiry date as all managers do. I might be.
Should read "They're are obviously connected to the situation we find ourselves in now" . We have been promoted well ahead of schedule and we are desperately trying to catch up. At all levels we are a championship club striving to catch up after 20+ years in the 2nd tier. One of the forces driving us forward is the professionalism of Steve Cooper and his ability to change things around ( admittedly sometimes it's at the speed of a tanker changing course) but he's proved he can do it I don't think a newly promoted club has had so many new signings to try and integrate into a team within 18 mnths before. And that is what it's all about., A team (Squad) and that is where we have always thrived in the past, from Johnny Carey to Brian Clough and from my knowledge of Coopers pas, he is an expert at putting a TEAM together (given time).
I am really getting tired of the words "I believe" and the use of the word Cult when somebody just has enthusiasm. I am also concerned about a lot of fellow posters apparently going full Chelsea / Man City prawn sandwich eating we are "entitled to" blah blah juveniles. We are entitled to f**k all. You learned nothing in 20+ years??. I am a little pissed (more than a little) and will probably be embarrassed about this tomorrow as generally I'm a reader not a poster. So for God's sake lads pull yourself together. Support the club, team and manager and try and enjoy the ride.
I've supported Forest for over 50 years but guess what? It's still only a game of football.

If we are going to try to play last season football with a significantly worse goalie and striker then it's a waste of a year, as well as being highly risky.
Our midfield options are better and our centre back options are better, and I'm sure the coaches would claim to have improved our wide backs.
We've been playing systems that hamper our options, and I don't particularly like any of the alternatives.
I think my preferred one is Cooper perseveres with the progressive formations and we stay up by virtue of the crapness of the bottom 3, getting used to possession along the way.

This, 10 times over

I think it is highly unlikely that none of those managers want to come. It is still a well paid job in the Premier league with the likelihood that if it goes wrong no one will blame you, it would be blamed on the situation.