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Jeff_Albertson
11 May 2023
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    jamesob
    Squad 1603 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 7:32 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 7:32 p.m.
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    @Jeff_Albertson has written:
    @donnyred has written:

    I said last season we are spending stupid money.

    Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
    Tbf, you said all the players were sh!te and we needed new ones and then you said they were all sh!te as well.

    He wasn't too far wrong about any of that though was he?

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    Ingo
    Squad 2647 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 7:36 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 7:36 p.m.
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    Bore off Pete.

    JimShady likes this.

    favorite 1

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    jamesob
    Squad 1603 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 7:40 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 7:40 p.m.
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    As you well know, I am not Pete and have never even met him.

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    tricky
    Board 7350 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 7:47 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 7:47 p.m.
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    How would anyone know that? I know that you have lied to me, you behave like an attention seeking troll, and it's impossible to judge you on anything but what you write.

    Which means that nobody with half a brain is going to take your assertions at face value.

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    Lessred
    Squad 2064 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 7:54 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 7:54 p.m.
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    @tricky has written:

    Sorry, I've not asked the question at all clearly.

    How can you spread the cost of player purchases across the number of accounting periods that equate to the length of the contract? How does that relate to stage payments, and how are they ultimately accounted for? How does that then corelate to book value of the player?

    The cash payments have no bearing on the p&l

    Eg

    A player is bought for £10m on a 5 year contract. £4 million upfront. £3m in 6 months the following £3m after 12 months.

    Dr Player asset £10m
    Cr bank £4m
    Cr Creditors £6m

    So you have a £10m asset, £4m less cash and you owe £6m.

    When the stage payments are made cash and creditors both go down. No P&L impact.

    Each year the P&L is charged £2m this is the P&L impact

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    tricky
    Board 7350 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 8:01 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 8:01 p.m.
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    Right. So why is it okay to charge the P&L spread over five years, at £2M a year, when I have paid £4M (plus £3M maybe also in this accounting period) this year, and next year the player might be worth nothing?

    What impact depreciating player value towards end of contract?

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    Lessred
    Squad 2064 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 8:03 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 8:03 p.m.
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    @tricky has written:

    Right. So why is it okay to charge the P&L spread over five years, at £2M a year, when I have paid £4M this year, and next year the player might be worth nothing?

    Yes, exactly that.

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    Simon
    Squad 6608 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 8:03 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 8:03 p.m.
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    @tricky has written:

    Right. So why is it okay to charge the P&L spread over five years, at £2M a year, when I have paid £4M (plus £3M maybe also in this accounting period) this year, and next year the player might be worth nothing?

    What impact depreciating player value towards end of contract?

    Thank you Mel Morris.

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    Lessred
    Squad 2064 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 8:04 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 8:04 p.m.
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    @tricky has written:

    What impact depreciating player value towards end of contract?

    Nothing, that was the Derby argument. (Re increasing values)

    Although if long term injured or career over you may have to take a bigger hit.

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    Charlie
    Squad 1832 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 8:15 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 8:15 p.m.
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    @JRs_Cigarette has written:

    On the one hand the rules are the rules and we were in breach.

    On the other hand, if we have a (presumably faxed as transfers always are) offer from Brentford before 30th June and then went on to sell that same player 2 months later for more money, I can see the argument that, at least, that Brentford offer amount can be counted in the end of June calcs.

    It probably doesn't remove the breach but could impact the level of sanction.

    The fact the money was spent I don't think you have to consider as our allowable losses increase in the new period.

    With a good relationship with a regulator who has been involved throughout I can see how some latitude could be given. But this goes to an independent panel so not sure how they factor things like that in.

    This is roughly what I also think (hope).

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    tricky
    Board 7350 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 8:39 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 8:39 p.m.
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    The regulator has passed the case to the independent commission to evaluate mitigation and set an appropriate level of sanction. They dismissed all of Everton's mitigation in the previous case. Did you see that quote I posted from the ruling, where any excess over the limit should be considered egregious? We are believed to be in the order of tens of millions over the limit. Everton's case appears to hinge on whether interest payments on infrastructure payments are allowable or not.

    If you observed our dealings it was impossible to conclude that we were not in P&S trouble, even with some, ahem, creative dealing. Almost everyone said that was not going to be the case when it was pointed out.

    It is now de-facto the case.

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    Lessred
    Squad 2064 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 8:54 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 8:54 p.m.
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    Where have you seen that we are tens of millions over?

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    jamesob
    Squad 1603 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 9:15 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 9:15 p.m.
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    @tricky has written:

    I know that you have lied to me,

    About what?

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    JRs_Cigarette
    Squad 2198 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 9:24 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 9:24 p.m.
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    @tricky has written:

    What impact depreciating player value towards end of contract?

    If I understand your question,

    You bought him for 10m for 5 years and thus expect he will deliver 2m of value to you every year, until at the end of year 5 he has no value.

    You depreciate assets over their useful life, which for footballers seems to be accepted as the length of contract you've given them. Can pick holes in that principle but it's probably the best approach all things considered.

    noodle likes this.

    favorite 1

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    JRs_Cigarette
    Squad 2198 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 9:26 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 9:26 p.m.
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    @Lessred am loving the debits and credits. Draw some T accounts and I think your work here is done.

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    Lessred
    Squad 2064 posts
    15 Jan 2024, 9:39 p.m. 15 Jan 2024, 9:39 p.m.
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    You laugh but we do sometimes still use them when we are doing control accounts.

    A couple of old clients even still do handwritten ETB's

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