Exactly, it's open to the league to argue it should be more (as they originally did).
What with that and the last day showdown at Turd Moor, there are some good opportunities for fate to have a bloody good laugh at us.
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I was under the impression that the appeal was simply for us to argue that the penalty was too harsh and that it should be reduced, and the commission considers that argument only. In order to increase it the PL would need to appeal with an argument that it was too lenient.
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See I've heard that, and read that (maybe from you) but not seen it categorically written anywhere.
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I probably got it from here, but I think it's pretty standard legal procedure. If you get convicted of a crime and appeal on the grounds of something you claim the prosecution got wrong, you don't get extra time on your sentence if they decide the prosecution was right. They're not retrying the case, they're determining whether the case was fairly and correctly adjudicated.
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An appeal means the appeal tribunal decide whether the first instance tribunal got it wrong. So that can theoretically work both ways, but it depends on how exactly the points of appeal are being cast and how they have been responded to. The line coming out of press sources from Forest (which is likely to be grounded in the advice of the KC, hopefully) is that the chances of it being made worse aren't high (but implicitly they aren't zero either). Let's hope they have good advice on this and have listened to it.
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It's not a criminal court though or a prosecution. It's a civil/regulatory matter. So that isn't right.
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I thought the rule was that for season 23/24 you make the fucker up as you go along.
I think point deductions are irrelevant because we’ll be evicted completely on the grounds that everyone hates us. -
A quick Google suggests there is very little, or no, or some chance of the deduction being increased. Also, that Forest were unlikely to, then possibly minded to, then determined to appeal. And that we were extremely lucky/extremely unlucky to get a four point deduction in the first place.
Also, various supercomputers think we will/won't get relegated.
Hope that helps.
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This will be the basic jurisdiction of the appeal tribunal, which absent specific rules (which the Everton appeal decision suggested were absent) will follow ordinary regularly principles and/or the principles of the civil courts:
a regulated person may appeal any decision to issue a penalty to the Tribunal
The Tribunal may: (i) uphold the penalty; (ii) set aside the penalty; (iii) vary the amount of penalty; and (iv) vary any date by which the penalty is required to be paid.
So that's what's possible.
Di Marco will have advised them properly on this as he knows his 🌰. Hopefully his advice reflects what Forest have briefed to the Athletic, I.e. that the chance of an uplift is low (I can't rule out that they have just said that though despite whatever they've been told because, you know, that isn't beyond us - see e.g. us being non compliant in the first place).
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We don't know if the league appealed our penalty.
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That's true. So if they didn't cross appeal and we were to say the penalty should be varied downwards because it was too high, it's unlikely the appeal tribunal would say "no it wasn't too high it was too low". But what is less clear is whether you need a formal cross appeal for it to go higher or if the PL could just argue in response to our appeal "it was not too high, it was too low for X, Y and Z reasons" (which one would assume they would given they originally were asking for a higher penalty). I suspect technically the jurisdiction of the appeal tribunal is broad enough for them to do what they want but that we have been advised the risk isn't high that they would increase the deduction.
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I thought they hadn’t?
But anyway, the PL twitter account has now decided Everton aren’t getting more points off
It's a big win for It's a big win for @Everton, as three precious points secure their Premier League safety!
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@premierleague have now deleted their earlier tweet about pts pending appeal.
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Which pretty much confirms that there is an outside chance we can end up with a larger points deduction (albeit surely not enough to not relegate Sheff Utd).
Alternatively, someone in their Comms team just wasn't really thinking what they were tweeting - which is more likely.
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It’ll be the latter. Not sure it was someone with any knowledge of the inner workings of the appeals procedure with their fat fingers on the tweet machine.
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I concur, it is just stating the obvious, until the appeals are confirmed then anything could happen
