G'Day. G'Day Goodbye! ( A match thread)

With Aina and Murillo sidelined, I can't see anyone stopping us conceding. We're shipping goals under Ange, but Nuno didn't have a clean sheet in his last 12 competitive games as manager. There are, of course, the 5 clean sheets in the 7 pre-season games, but we didn't score in 6 of those games either.

That's why I think he needs to go. It's a ridiculously short period of time given how badly we finished under Nuno and given we're down our two best defenders, but the mob have turned and so it's over.

I partly agree. Though I think we could be better at it than we are now.

On the defensive front I'm a bit annoyed that we spent so much money in the summer and don't seem to have signed anyone in the back line that is pushing for a start.

We have also talked about our model of buying players and improving them then selling on ... If we tried to sell almost any of our summer signings at the moment we'd be making some big losses.

What a bloody state we're in.

We've all got delusions of grandeur based on a magnificent 3/4 of a season. Russ mentioned Charlton and Les Reed recently, which is kinda ironic because we're in danger of heading down the same path as Charlton. We've gotten far too far ahead of ourselves (ownership and supporters), and we're about to hound out a manager well regarded by outsiders in less than 10 games. No manager worth his salt is going to want to come and manage us with the risk that that will happen to them. We've only got ourselves to blame.

I've no illusions of grandeur. I want us to not get relegated. I'll bite your hand off for 4th from bottom right now. Do I think Ange will manage that? No. That's why I think he needs to go.

Depends what you mean by “outsiders”. The general football fan in England regards him as a bit of a joke - that’s at least part of the reason why the crowd has turned so fast. Same thing was true of the last two managers driven out almost straight away - McLaren and McLeish.

Every single person I've encountered after his appointment has laughed and said he will take you down and/or be gone by Christmas.

Similarly I've not heard/read any media that regards him well. Neutral at best.

Edit: full disclosure I've just read Eddie Howe pre match comments where he says Ange is a good manager. Im not sure if he really believes that.

Maybe Ozzie's think Ange is a good manager, but not sure anyone else does.

Honestly fellas, go read up on groupthink. The reason why you haven't come across contrasting views is because you had a view about him already, and you're seeking out/listening to the views of those who agree with you.

It is objectively preposterous to say that a manager who won a European title with Spurs could be regarded as a joke.

Groupthink, hmmm.

I'm not seeking out like minded views, these are just folks in my office that expressed their view once he was appointed. None of them support Forest, only one or two support Spurs. They have no skin on the game.

Sometimes "groupthink" is just the truth?

To be fair the only Aussie expressing a view to me is you, so maybe if I encountered more antipodeans I would get a different view. But maybe it's you guys suffering from group think?

Maybe it is me. That's always possible. Part of not engaging in groupthink is accepting the possibility that you are wrong.

However, the English have always been a little prone to hubris when it comes to what they think they know about football. If the English were as knowledgeable about winning football as they think they are, 28 years wouldn't have passed since an English manager led any club to a European title, and 17 years wouldn't have passed since an English manager won a major English title. In that time, Ange has won 4 Australian titles, 1 Japanese title, 2 Scottish titles, 2 Scottish League Cups, 1 Scottish Cup, the Europa League, and the Asian Cup as manager of Australia.

His time here will end, and he will go elsewhere (and hopefully make a better decision than this one about where to go). He'll win things elsewhere. And we'll revert to the mean.

Or to phrase it appropriately, flat track bully who is woefully out of his depth in the Premier League.
Happy to join the group think.

I don't think we are down on Ange because he's from Australia not England.

That's not my point nor what I said mate. My point is that I think you're wrong. Are you prepared to concede that you may be?

I'd love to be wrong, let's hope it's starts tomorrow.

I sang his name in Seville as I thought it was coming together then Sunderland and Thursday night just went backwards.

I'm clinging to 20 minutes in Seville as what might be possible.

Luiz, Murillo and Aina being fit might make it possible, but he should be able to grind out results even with a few players missing.