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Topic: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy (Read 1164648 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16875 –
Quote from: charlie on
Had something midway between an out-of-body experience and a brain seizure earlier today, when I bought tickets to take two grandchildren to the panto at Nottingham Playhouse. Can't quite believe I've done that. Nor can anybody else in my family, as it's so unlike me. Now nervously awaiting the next stupid thing I'm going to do...

Taking them to an ALL DAY soft play session.

Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16876 –
Quote from: JP on
Taking them to an ALL DAY soft play session.

Yer, no Blue Diamond though, take them down that one in the Meadows. And go Shepards for tea.
Europe. It's happening.

Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16877 –
Quote from: podnli on
I came 16th with 560 points. The winner in my selection of Diamond League had 6,900. I sometimes think that waiting to start your new week later on Monday puts you together with a selection of less zealous students.

560 points? You'd already be only two places above relegation in my league. I've got 1600 and am in 8th. The leader already has 7,337 points. Don't think I'll be winning this week.

Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16878 –
Quote from: karlmark on
560 points? You'd already be only two places above relegation in my league. I've got 1600 and am in 8th. The leader already has 7,337 points. Don't think I'll be winning this week.

Duolingo discussion follows...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16879 –
Who used to do to the panto Joke Du Jour?

Was it richoriginal? Where is he, the workshy fop? 
Meet the New c*nts.

Same as the Old c*nts.

Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16880 –
I just spent an hour talking about STIR/SHAKEN, the various interpretations of the protocol and its usage in different territories, and the general CRTC approach to enforcement.

I found it honestly fascinating, but I imagine it would be mundane to most.
The dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed.

Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16881 –
Genuinely haven't given a lot of thought to this. Generally treat public phone systems (which really are artificially created mirrors of legacy infrastructure on a modern data backbone, primarily for billing purposes) as inherently compromised. I don't discuss or do anything using confidential information over them. If I want a confidential chat (written, audio,  or video) it will be using something end to end encrypted, using a verified key exchange method. If I don't,   it will be using encrypted data traffic to a server/service.

Apart from for legacy reasons (people are idiots, and struggle with change), voice public phone traffic is dead. It just doesn't know it yet.
This post does not consist of knowns. It does not even consist of known unknowns. It is, in fact, complete horsesh!t.

Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16882 –
Quote from: Russ on
I just spent an hour talking about STIR/SHAKEN, the various interpretations of the protocol and its usage in different territories, and the general CRTC approach to enforcement.

I found it honestly fascinating, but I imagine it would be mundane to most.

We'd have to understand what it meant, to begin with.

Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16883 –
Quote from: tricky on
Genuinely haven't given a lot of thought to this. Generally treat public phone systems (which really are artificially created mirrors of legacy infrastructure on a modern data backbone, primarily for billing purposes) as inherently compromised. I don't discuss or do anything using confidential information over them. If I want a confidential chat (written, audio,  or video) it will be using something end to end encrypted, using a verified key exchange method. If I don't,   it will be using encrypted data traffic to a server/service.

Apart from for legacy reasons (people are idiots, and struggle with change), voice public phone traffic is dead. It just doesn't know it yet.

Nor should you have needed to give thought to it. Voice over public networks (including the internet) is still an important medium and will be for many years to come, and you're right that many are not as secure as one might wish them to be - although the vast majority of voice calls require a lot more work to intercept and hack for a far worse return than simply obtaining passwords, so there's a consideration of how much you really need to care about the security of most voice calls.

S/S though isn't a security protocol so much as it is about the carrier attesting to the identity of the caller with the intent of telling you whether an inbound caller is who they say they are, or if they're possibly, probably or definitely a spammer or scammer, which is an important tool in ensuring that the public's trust in and use of voice continues. And it will come as probably little surprise to you that it's a bit of a mess, because commercial considerations are in conflict with the requirements of the standard and so too many people are trying to walk a grey area in the middle - or just flat out cheating.
The dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed.

Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16884 –
Yes, my point about keypair is that it can provide security as well as identity. You have a key authority, that holds the public key against the identity holder. In this charging model that could be the 'telecoms' company. As their verified customer I register my public key against my identity. In their 'phone book'. When registered identity holders communicate (via key exchange and contact media,  chat, voice, video) the identity holders private key is required to decrypt the stream using the public key by the recipient. This verifies identify, and secures through encryption.

The problem for the phone companies is that anyone can run a server etching the service. There's nothing walled and chargeable (except the trusted identity key service). Talkback could run one, and it will.

As will everything and everyone else.

Want to phone your bank? They will run a key authority,  you register your keys with them, as you register your signature. You call them on their encrypted voice server, using their trusted key authority. Only data involved. No telecoms companies required. They ring you. You know it's them because of the verified key exchange you have previously done.
This post does not consist of knowns. It does not even consist of known unknowns. It is, in fact, complete horsesh!t.

Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16885 –
Quote from: tricky on
Yes, my point about keypair is that it can provide security as well as identity. You have a key authority, that holds the public key against the identity holder. In this charging model that could be the 'telecoms' company. As their verified customer I register my public key against my identity. In their 'phone book'. When registered identity holders communicate (via key exchange and contact media,  chat, voice, video) the identity holders private key is required to decrypt the stream using the public key by the recipient. This verifies identify, and secures through encryption.

The problem for the phone companies is that anyone can run a server etching the service. There's nothing walled and chargeable (except the trusted identity key service). Talkback could run one, and it will.

As will everything and everyone else.

Want to phone your bank? They will run a key authority,  you register your keys with them, as you register your signature. You call them on their encrypted voice server, using their trusted key authority. Only data involved. No telecoms companies required. They ring you. You know it's them because of the verified key exchange you have previously done.

This is an excellent solution for the tiny fraction of the population who would be able to handle it, and would wish to. It does not help my parents wanting to pick up the physical telephone in their living room to call the gas company to query why their bill is so high this month.

I think you might be shocked at how many landlines, both CO and BRI/PRI, are still out there. Telecom company execs are not sitting in shiny offices sh!tting themselves about Grandma giving up her landline, we are actively and aggressively pursuing deselection strategies because maintaining copper and its associated infrastructure is expensive and we want everyone to buy our shiny new things instead. But when you are a member of Joe Public in Canada wanting to call a number in the US using any of a range of devices - landline, cell phone, office phone connected to a SIP trunk - we need to provide a single verification tool as we hand that call to the US carrier for connection asserting whether you are Joe Public and we know you are, you claim to be Joe Public and we think you are but can't be sure, you claim to be Joe Public and we have no idea if you are or not, or you claim to be Joe Public and we're damn sure you're not. The US carrier can then either make a decision to accept that call or not, or hand it to its destination stating how likely it is that it's actually Joe calling.

What you're proposing is wholly workable between specific consenting and capable peers, but as part of a wider public network environment is entirely impossible.
The dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed.

Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16886 –
The 'telecoms' companies could be the consenting  and capable peers. Or better other trustworthy organisations (what better then publicly accountable bodies, like local authorities?). Then we could bin whole layers of unnecessary fake infrastructure, like sip trunks which are not real or reflective of service provision or cost, but are merely made up billing concepts (pricing per 'user' or 'line').

I embrace a future where we collaborate to progress our species. Rather than limit it, so that sections of society can bill the stupid parts.
This post does not consist of knowns. It does not even consist of known unknowns. It is, in fact, complete horsesh!t.

Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16887 –
Quote from: tricky on
The 'telecoms' companies could be the consenting  and capable peers. Or better other trustworthy organisations (what better then publicly accountable bodies, like local authorities?). Then we could bin whole layers of unnecessary fake infrastructure, like sip trunks which are not real or reflective of service provision or cost, but are merely made up billing concepts (pricing per 'user' or 'line').

I embrace a future where we collaborate to progress our species. Rather than limit it, so that sections of society can bill the stupid parts.

Except no one is providing that infrastructure for free, are they? Replace your per user cost with access and authentication fees (could be bundled if they're the same providers, could be separate) and you're still paying, it's just a different charging model.

I do accept that trunks/lines are an outmoded concept, but people understand them. It's essentially a simultaneous access fee. Interestingly we are seeing more demand for, and providing, usage base billing for corporate customers where instead of predetermining a number of "lines", they're paying a per minute charge for usage - inbound and outbound. The more you use the service the more you pay for it. 1000 minutes of use by 1000 people from 9am to 9:01am costs exactly the same as one person sitting on the same call for 1000 minutes.
The dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed.

Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16888 –
...and of course that it's inevitable that telecom companies would want to enforce thinking that leads to them providing solutions that at least involve, and preferably rely, on them. But it's not necessary. Your local authority, your health service, your pension provider, your government, all know who you are and can verify that...and could be key holders. And local and national governments can verify (the keys of) organisations. Very. f*cking. cheaply. as. a. part. of. what. they. already. do.

We could all just make data calls to and from verified people and organisations, without the multiple layers of fake infrastructure and contrived charging.

All we need is data pipes that actually work, and then people could hang services off them wherever and whenever they needed to. If telecoms companies really wanted to be useful, they would leverage their skill (which is essentially data pipes and network infrastructure) for some actual good.

...but, money.
This post does not consist of knowns. It does not even consist of known unknowns. It is, in fact, complete horsesh!t.
 

Re: The Real Mundane Moments not Ingos sh!t Copy

Reply #16889 –
Slight tangent - We're finding that since the Pandemic, that 95% of all calls have moved to mobile. Only a small subset still uses a firm issued direct line, to that extent were beginning to phase out corporate phone numbers for most at the firm. We've been SIP only based for the last 5 years and 80% of users handed back their desk phone 3 years ago, the savings are significant.